PINE PLATEAU ESTATES
Saturday, June 25, 2022
Unofficial Minutes of the Annual Meeting
The meeting started out like most, followed the agenda. Mr. Hale told us that we were only there because the state mandates an annual meeting. A couple of the new members introduced themselves. Talked about the budget and that the dues will stay the same for another year at $60.00. It was approved by the members present.
A vote was held and Rex Feller and Bill Johnson were elected to the board of trustees. I was glad to see a couple of military guys get those positions, they might offer a little different perceptive. Mr. Passey and Mr. Thorpe were released from their positions.
There was a very one sided discussion about camping and trailers, one sided because everyone agrees that Pine Plateau should be for cabins only.
Snow removal, the board dodged a bullet here by not trying to raise the dues to cover the snow removal outside of the gates. Probably after Mr. Hale leaves office someone will get stuck with the fact that our documents do not allow for money to be spent outside of Pine Plateau except for the twenty foot wide ingress and egress from both gates.
Bear River, Here’s where the board has a real can of worms to deal with.
My thoughts:
First and foremost, this is not the fault of anyone except Mother Nature.
There is no question that every road in Pine Plateau on the original plat map states that they are a private right of way. As far as I can tell there have never been any amendments to the original map.
There is nothing in the original documents until the covenants for section 4 were filed with the county on 7 June 1962.
Item 12 in that document states: “Each lot will have and be subject to an easement twenty (20) feet wide and all as shown on the recorded plat, for ingress and egress of all the lot owners and their guests. The system of roadways within the subdivision as shown on the recorded plat shall remain private roadways and will not be dedicated to Summit for public use without the consent of the majority of the lot owners”.
The 2013 documents states: Section 1.8 “Common Area” means those areas of land, devoted to the common use and enjoyment of the lot owner, including the perimeter fencing around the project, as well as roads, easements, and/or right-of-ways, as set forth in Exhibit “A” which are to be used by more than one lot owner. However, private driveways, and/or parking areas within a residential lot contained within and used only by that lot owner are not common areas.
If you look at the original complete map you can see what I think Mr. MacKay’s intent was. Coming in the south gate his intent was for the members to access all roads to all lots, but if you follow the Pine View road down to the river you can clearly see that this was the only way to access area 1 and 2.
If you go north on Deer Run road you reach near to lot 436 and the road goes down past the Bay cabin and then south along the river. That road to lot 332 is not on the plot map and by using it you are actually trespassing over private property to get to lots 331 to 201. I heard the gentleman who was representing the Bay family say that it was ok. That’s very nice of them, but things change and I do believe that Summit County might have a problem with that.
That small piece of road was created by necessity to access the river front lots. The Bear River has encroached 30 to 50 feet in some areas destroying access from the south end like it was intended.
Probably 20 years ago I walked that length of river with the then president Gary Norman, Jason Gipson who was the Project Manager at that time for the Army Corp of Engineers and Mr. Cloey Wall from Uinta Engineering. Mr. Wall did most of the surveying in that area and he showed us several areas where his survey markers were probably in the middle of the river.
The road on the plat map that was supposed to go to lots 443-448 down the East side of 332 was never completed. Mr. Hale claims that it is not the responsibility of the board to finish that road. Those lots are currently land locked and as soon as one them wants to sell I think the board will be forced to create that road.
Summit County’s legal description of that property on those quit claim deeds states: “Legal; that portion of a formerly private R/W abutting to the west lots”. They knew it was a road.
The legal problems I see are:
Covenants section 3.6.1 No Subdividing: No lot or portion thereof, shall be further subdivided, and no portion less than all of any such lot, or any easement or other interest therein, shall be conveyed or transferred by any owner without the prior written approval of the association, unless otherwise permitted in writing by the association, no lot owner shall offer or sell any interest in a lot and/or the improvements on said lot, under a timesharing, interval ownership, fractional, club or similar program
Covenants section 4.1.1 Transfer of Common Areas. Except as otherwise provided in this declaration, no dedication, transfer, mortgage or encumbrance of all or any portion of the common areas shall be effective unless approved by owners representing fifty-one (51%) percent of the votes, one vote per lot of the association lot owners.
I don’t believe these sections have been met, that makes it a board of trustee problem. In fact, that alone may be enough to challenge all of the quit claim deeds.
Mr. Hale has a real conflict of interest with Mr. Passey being a past board member and the fact that the owners of lot 1 and 2 who also have holdings along the river were invited to a board meeting to explain their side of the problem and no one else was. Someone other than hale needs to take on this project. Let the attorneys be the fall guys. I will gladly you give the board my file, could save us a lot of money and time for the attorney.
The board needs to have that river front property surveyed again; there may not even be enough property to even be concerned over. Contact a property rights/real-estate attorney and present all of the facts of this matter. I believe that the road going down to the river near the Bays cabin will have to be a dedicated access point for the river front lots.
Once all the legal matters are cleared up, then the board needs to come to an agreement with those property owners about access by other members.
When the board asked for a heads up with questions that might be asked at the meeting, I was hesitant to write to board, haven’t done it in about 4 years. I explained this road situation to them. Mr. Mander (current board member) was kind enough to write back and say that he and his wife agreed with everything I had submitted, so he apparently understood the letter. Yet when I asked hale in the meeting why he thought the road goes all the way to the river and did the quit claims take in that property, he said he didn’t understand, I think he did.
P.S. The State shows Pine Plateau Estates Property Owners Association. Inc. Registered agent: Eric B. Hale. The non-profit status expired in 2018; hope they haven’t been filing taxes as a nonprofit.
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Pine Plateau Estates
Home Owners Association Annual Meeting Minutes - June 25, 2022
The Thorpe Cabin - Lot 318, Pine Plateau Estates, Summit County
Board Members Present: Eric Hale - EH, Bill Thorpe - BT, Glen Passey - GP, Eric Mander - EM
Board Members Excused: Cody Lawler
Association Members Present: Forty-nine (55) lots were represented, thirty-six 31 members in attendance.
Copies of correspondence, the agenda, financial statements, rules & regulations and a sign-up sheet was made available to all in attendance, either by the Association Facebook page, mail or at the meeting..
1. EH called the meeting to order at 11:05 am and introduced the board, and welcomed the membership. Notice of the meeting was posted on the Pine Plateau Facebook page and mailed to each member, along with a copy of the 2021, 2022 and 2023 budgets. New members introduced themselves. All dues have been collected (with a couple of exceptions) - reminder letters have been or will be sent out
2. The PPE operating budgets were prepared by CL and EH reviewed them with all present. . The Association ended the year 2021 with a cash reserve of $34,106.39 and a projected cash reserve for 2022 of $32,055.30. The FY 2022 budget was reviewed. A motion was made and seconded to accept and approve the budget as presented. The motion was unanimously approved by the membership.
3. EH reported that there are two (2) board positions for election. We would like to thank Glen Passey and Bill Thorpe for their service to the Association and 9+ years on the Board. Nominations to fill the board positions were requested on the Association Facebook page, and in the mailing that went out to all members, As of this meeting the Secretary of the Association had received four (4) nominations; Rex Feller, Missy Elardi, Bill Johnson and Neesha Kilpack. EH asked if there were any nominations from the members present, there being none, EH asked for a motion to fill out their voting ballot and return them to BT for counting. Final Vote: Bill Johnson - 51, Rex Feller -47, Missy Elardi- 22, Neesha Kilpack- 22.
BT Announced that the membership had elected Rex Feller and Bill Johnson to the Board, for a three (3) year term.
4. EH informed the members that there have several questions about river access from Pine Plateau for the use of PPE members and their guests. According the Summit County recorded records, there is a 20' ROW for all roads within PPE. The ROW is on individual lots within PPE. All property adjacent to the roadway ROW is private property and subject to trespass laws and regulations. The Board has researched county and association records and was not able to find any reference to river access rights by PPE members and owners.
As the road going down to the river is a 20' ROW and there is not enough room to turn a vehicle around, without going on private property, and there is no parking allowed, per PPE Rules & Regulations, the Board is requesting that members who desire to go down to the river, do so on foot and not bring their vehicles - we need to respect the property rights of our fellow members and neighbors..
5. There will be no vvood chipping program this year, per Summit County.
6. The Association will arrange for snow removal at the south gate parking area. Some members asked about restricting use of the parking lot to PPE members only. EH reported that that property is owned by UDOT and the Association cannot restrict parking.
7. The Board will be doing some road repairs and maintenance this summer/fall. If anyone is aware of a particular area that needs attention, please let one of the Board Members know.
PINE PLATEAU FACEBOOK PAGE - Most of the members are on the PPE Facebook page. This page is for the use of our members to post pictures, ask questions, communicate, and generally have access to information. It is frequently seen and reviewed by most of the registered members. Anyone who is a member of the Pine Plateau Facebook group can post on the Facebook page and the Board encourages members to post pictures and other information. The Association DOES NOT have, authorize nor endorses any other Facebook or Web sites. If you want to join the PPE Facebook Group, make a request on the page and it will be approved by one of the Facebook Page administrators.
Thank you for your continued support.
The meeting was adjourned at 12:20 pm, until next summer at a time and place to be announced. Respectfully submitted,
Bill Thorpe - Association Secretary
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Pine Plateau Estates
Home Owners Association Annual Meeting Minutes – June 27, 2020
The Thorpe Cabin – Lot 318, Pine Plateau Estates, Summit County
Board Members Present:
Eric Hale – EH, Bill Thorpe - BT, Glen Passey - GP, Eric Mander – EM
Board Members Excused: Cody Lawler
Association Members Present:
Twenty four (24) members in attendance.
Copies of all correspondence, the agenda, financial statements, Summit County Wood Chipping Instructions and a sign-up sheet was made available to all in attendance, either by mail or at the meeting.
My Opinion
1. EH called the meeting to order at 11:30 am and introduced the board, and welcomed the membership. Notice of the meeting was posted on the Pine Plateau Facebook page and mailed to each member, along with a copy of the 2019, 2020 and 2021 budgets. Most dues have been collected (with a couple of exceptions) – reminder letters have been sent out.
2. The PPE operating budgets were prepared by CL and EH reviewed them with all present. The budgets were previously sent out to all members. The Association ended the year 2019 with a cash reserve of $30,453.02 and a projected cash reserve for 2020 of $33,278.06. The FY 2020 budget was reviewed. A motion was made and seconded to accept and approve the budget as presented. The motion was unanimously approved by those present. Except for the members on face book who didn’t attend did not get a copy of the budgets.
3. EH reported that there are three (3) board positions for election. Eric ale, Eric Mander and Cody LawlerHHale, Eric Mander and Cody Lawler have agreed to once again serve for the three (3) year term. Nominations to fill the board positions were requested on the Association Facebook page, and in the mailing that went out to all members, As of this meeting the Secretary of the Association had received no nominations. EH asked if there were any nominations from the members present, there being none, EH asked for a motion to elect and approve that Eric Hale, Eric Mander and Cody Lawler serve for another three (3) term. A motion was made and seconded, the motion was unanimously approved by those present.
4. EH reported on three areas of interest to the members:
A) Excessive Speed - Speeding ATV’s are dangerous and in violation of Association Rules and Regulations.. The speed limit within Pine Plateau is 10 mph. It is each owners responsibility to insure that all family members and guests know to observe the speed limit within Pine Plateau..
The Board is not nor should they be responsible for monitoring vehicle speeds. Are they not PPE members? All members should support slowing these vehicles down.
The Board has decided that if the owners cannot get this problem under control, physical barriers will be installed throughout Pine Plateau; Swinging gates that will require drivers to stop and swing it open to pass, speed bumps or other physical limiters. This will certainly be an inconvenience to all and costly to the association, but we need to get the speed under control. Like I said before: speed bumps will turn into atv jumps. This board couldn’t keep the south gate closed for years and they had physical evidence who was doing it. If they install gates they couldn’t be close enough together to stop anyone from speeding and what’s to keep them from being tied open
The Board immediately will install a few speed bumps as a test. If they do not work and speeding continues, the Board will install swinging gates this fall/winter. The only real remedy is what Manor Land does and what we used to do before this board took over. Every off road vehicle should have a lot number attached to the back of it for identification, could be a plate a sticker preferably something that could be removed or attached to rental and or guest machines.
B) Roadways - All association roads are in good shape and no maintenance is planned for this year.
C) Fire Pit Permits – It is time to renew your fire pit permits, please contact Rex Feller at 801-541-6502 to arrange for in inspection and issuance of a valid fire pit permit.
D) Architectural Committee – As a reminder, any and all construction, additions of buildings or modifications to the land must be approved in writing by the Architectural Committee. Please refer to all relevant documents before doing any work: CC&R’s (Declarations), Rules & Regulations, By-laws, etc. These are available from Summit County (on line or in person) or on the Pine Plateau Facebook group page. Failure to do so, will result in potentially heavy fines. Heavy fines? One of the most egregious violations of the rules was a family who had an unauthorized fire, got caught, put it out then had another fire the same day and tried to hide the evidence. The board actually fined the owner $1000.00 which they should have done. Then they dropped it down to $250.00 just to get it over with. I don’t think they had the authority to do that and then they keep saying how the property owner is responsible for their family and guests.
Any and all construction: There is no mention of the Architectural Control Committee in the Covenants’ or bylaws that I could find. Rule # 4 “Architectural Control pertains only to structures over 200 sq. ft “. And goes on further to state: “It is not the intent of the board to slow or hinder the construction of new residence, out building or fence but rather to be made aware of construction plans before actual construction begins so that is compliance to Summit County Ordinances and Building codes can be assured. The covenants: 3.2.10 does talk about excavation and must be approved by the board. 3.2.11 Construction: does not mention contacting the board. 5.3 Does basically say that the board can make or change any rules that they want to without contacting the membership, I have never seen this in any other document, it should say that the board can make rules only in an emergency situation and only then until the membership can vote upon it. Section C does talk about improvements but only says that it can become part of the rules. Section 1.12 does list what improvements are and if the board does ever includes this section into the rules you will have to contact Mr. Thorpe if you do anything. Read it, I’m not kidding. This section like the rest was designed for condos and permanent residents in an HOA.
E) The summit County wood chipping crew will be here on July 22 & 23 and will chip as many of the wood piles as they can in an 8 hour day. Please have your piles stacked alongside the roadway. Instructions for the wood chipping were distributed to all present and can be found on the Pine Plateau Facebook page or the Summit County WEB site.
PINE PLATEAU FACEBOOK PAGE – We now have 100+ members on the Association Facebook page. This page is for the use of our members to post pictures, ask questions, communicate, and generally have access to information. It is frequently seen and reviewed by most of the registered members. Anyone who is a member of the Pine Plateau Facebook group can post on the Facebook page and the Board encourages members to post pictures and other information. But only if it approved by Mr. Thorpe
The Association DOES NOT have, authorize nor endorses any other Facebook or Web sites. Thank you, but your endorsement or authorization is not necessary for the website.
Thank you for your continued support.
The meeting was adjourned at 12:15 pm, until next summer at a time and place to be announced.
Respectfully submitted,
Bill Thorpe – Association Secretary
FYI: The bylaws (4.02) also say that all members may attend all board of trustee meetings, which means that the board needs to start posting their meetings.
Section: 7.06: Immediately following each annual meeting of Members, the board of trustees shall hold a regular meeting for the purpose of organization, election of officers. I look forward to the minutes of this meeting that has never been held in the past.
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Pine Plateau Estates
Home Owners Association Annual Meeting Minutes – June 22, 2019
The Thorpe Cabin – Lot 318, Pine Plateau Estates, Summit County
My Opinions:
Board Members Present: Eric Hale – EH, Bill Thorpe - BT, Glen Passey - GP, Eric Mander – EM
Board Members Excused: Cody Lawler
Association Members Present:
Forty-nine (49) lots were represented, thirty-six (36) members in attendance.
Copies of all correspondence, the agenda, financial statements, Summit County Wood Chipping Instructions and a sign-up sheet was made available to all in attendance, either by mail or at the meeting..
EH called the meeting to order at 11:30 am and introduced the board, and welcomed the membership. Notice of the meeting was posted on the Pine Plateau Facebook page and mailed to each member, along with a copy of the 2018, 2019 and 2020 budgets. All dues have been collected (with a couple of exceptions) – reminder letters have been sent out.
The PPE operating budgets were prepared by CL and EH reviewed them with all present. The budgets were previously sent out to all members. The Association ended the year 2018 with a cash reserve of $26,812.82 and a projected cash reserve for 2019 of $33,612.22. The FY 2020 budget was reviewed. A motion was made and seconded to accept and approve the budget as presented. The motion was unanimously approved by the membership
EH reported that there are two (2) board positions for election. Glen Passey and Bill Thorpe have agreed to once again serve for the three (3) year term. Nominations to fill the board positions were requested on the Association Facebook page, and in the mailing that went out to all members, As of this meeting the Secretary of the Association had received no nominations. EH asked if there were any nominations from the members present, there being none, EH asked for a motion to elect and approve that Glen Passey and Bill Thorpe serve for another three (3) term. A motion was made and seconded, the motion was unanimously approved.
EH reported on three areas of interest to the members:
Road Maintenance – there are a few low spots that will require road base and compaction. The Board will arrange to have this work as soon as possible. Money has been budgeted to cover this expense..
NOTE: Speeding ATV’s are a major cause of road gravel being pushed, as well as improper wintertime clearing,, as a reminder, please keep ATV speeds to under 10 mph while in Pine Plateau.
Gate Locks – We now have spar, which EM has, If anyone needs a new or spare key, please contact EM. One member said they sometimes have difficulty using the keys on the S. Gate, the Board will see that the locks are properly lubricated.
The Board has added a second trash dumpster. Please do not over fill the dumpsters, as this is a source for animals and critters. Also, please limit the amount of large items, construction materials, etc. and haul this out yourselves. If you see the dumpsters full, please DO NOT pile trash on top or on the ground, haul it out, just as we did before we had the dumpster.
Fire pits within PPE must be re-inspected every two years, before a permit can be authorized and permitted. Of the nine (9) approved fire pits, eight (8) are due for inspection now. Please contact Rex Feller for your inspection and authorization. . Please note that when the Forest Service posts a “HIGH” Fire Danger notice at the ranger station, we will post our own HIGH Fire Danger signs at each gate. This means there are to be NO OPEN FIRES within Pine Plateau, the fine for violating this is $1,000., Even if you have a valid Fire Permit, NO OPEN FIRES.
The summit County wood chipping crew will be here on July 17 & 18 and will chip as many of the wood piles as they can in an 8 hour day. Please have your piles stacked alongside the roadway. Instructions for the wood chipping were distributed to all present and can be found on the Pine Plateau Facebook page or the Summit County WEB site.
Reminder: The by-laws of the Association call for an Architectural Control Committee to oversee any buildings, additions or modifications to property within Pine Plateau. The Board will act as the Architectural Control Committee for the Association. Any structures, additions or modifications need to be reviewed and approved in advance by the committee.
So has any member submitted anything? New modular homes going in and garages. The board should publish whatever has been submitted so the members know.
PINE PLATEAU FACEBOOK PAGE – We now have 94 members on the Association Facebook page. This page is for the use of our members to post pictures, ask questions, communicate, and generally have access to information. It is frequently seen and reviewed by most of the registered members. Anyone who is a member of the Pine Plateau Facebook group can post on the Facebook page and the Board encourages members to post pictures and other information. The Association DOES NOT have, authorize nor endorses any other Facebook or Web sites.
And that is about the first thing you read when you come to this web site.
Thank you for your continued support.
The meeting was adjourned at 12:20 pm, until next summer at a time and place to be announced.
Respectfully submitted,
Bill Thorpe – Association Secretary
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Pine Plateau Estates
Home Owners Association Annual Meeting Minutes – June 23, 2018
The Thorpe Cabin – Lot 318, Pine Plateau Estates, Summit County
My Opinions.
Board Members Present:
Eric Hale – EH, Cody Lawler-CL Bill Thorpe - BT, Glen Passey - GP, Eric Mander - EM
Association Members Present:
Sixty-one (60) lots were represented, forty-five (45) members in attendance.
Copies of all correspondence, the agenda, financial statements, Summit County Wood Chipping Instructions and a sign-up sheet was made available to all in attendance, either by mail or at the meeting..
1. EH introduced the board, and welcomed the membership at 10:40am June 23, 2018. Notice of the meeting was posted on the Pine Plateau Facebook page and mailed to each member, along with a copy of the 2017, 2018 and 2019 budgets. All dues have been collected (with a couple of exceptions) – reminder letters have been sent out.
2. EH explained that the Association has been operating on a calendar year budget, this has caused some confusion, because we have been approving a budget, when one-half of the year was over (June annual meeting)..
A motion was made and seconded that we change to a July 1 to June 30 fiscal year basis for budgeting and reporting. After a brief discussion, the motion was unanimously approved by the members present.
3. CL presented the 2017 and 2018 operating budgets for the Association (attached). The Association ended the year 2017 with a cash reserve of $21,882.80 and a projected cash reserve for 2018 of $27,022.82. The FY 2019 budget was reviewed. A motion was made and seconded to accept and approve the budget as presented. The motion was approved by the membership.
4. EM reported on three areas of interest to the members:
1) Road Maintenance – Following the work previously done by the Association, the roads are in great shape. However, in order to keep them in great shape, we have authorized an annual expenditure to smooth out low spots and move gravel from the sides to the center of the roads and add road base as needed. NOTE: Speeding ATV’s are a major cause of road gravel being pushed, as a reminder, please keep ATV speeds to under 10 mph while in Pine Plateau.
2) Perimeter Fencing – Most of our perimeter fencing is in good shape. There are however, a few breaches in the fencing needing repairs and corrections. We will contract this work out this year.
3) Gate Locks – We have sent two (2) of our locks to Alpine Lock for repair and reconditioning. When we receive them back from Alpine, we will put one on the S. Gate and keep one as a spare.
5. EH reported that there was a fire on Thursday and Friday south of Pine Plateau near the Monviso development. As previously noted on the Pine Plateau Facebook page, this year is anticipated to be very dry. Please note that when the Forest Service posts a “HIGH” Fire Danger notice at the ranger station, we will post our own HIGH Fire Danger signs at each gate. This means there are to be NO OPEN FIRES within Pine Plateau, the fine for violating this is $1,000., Even if you have a valid Fire Permit, NO OPEN FIRES.
6. The summit County wood chipping crew will be here on July 31 and August 1 and will chip as many of the wood piles as they can in an 8 hour day. Please have your piles stacked alongside the roadway. (Instructions for the wood chipping can be found on the Pine Plateau Facebook page or the Summit County WEB site))
7. The members had a discussion about putting in a light at the North and South Gate for security and safety reasons. BT explained that the Board had looked at this in the past; the power company indicated that with installing a pole, running wires, installing a transformer and meter (for billing purposes), the cost would be prohibitive. It was suggested that we consider a solar powered light for the gates; some members have experience with solar lighting and explained the benefits and the relatively low cost and minimal ongoing maintenance.
A motion was made and seconded that the Board be authorized to investigate a solar lighting system for the North and South gate and $1,000 to acquire and install. After a brief discussion, the motion was approved unanimously by the members
8. EH reported that it is imperative that all the dead fall on lots be cleared away, to reduce the fuel level for possible fires and to help our community look neat and clean. Many lot owners have already cleared or are clearing their lots. There are several lots that haven’t been touched and have a lot of dead fall present. The Board will send out a letter to each lot owner asking them to have the dead fall removed, if they don’t or won’t, the Board has the authority to have the lots cleared and bill the lot owner for the expense.
9. A question about snow removal was raised. The Association pays for wintertime snow removal from the south parking area, but does not pay for any snow removal inside Pine Plateau. This is up to each cabin owner to make arrangements. HOWEVER, any snow removal must be done in such a way as to not block any road or drive access to cabins and should not damage any property of others (including fencing, plants, rock borders, etc.).
10. The by-laws of the Association call for an Architectural Control Committee to oversee any buildings, additions or modifications to property within Pine Plateau. The Board will act as the Architectural Control Committee for the Association. Any structures, additions or modifications need to be reviewed and approved in advance by the committee.
PINE PLATEAU FACEBOOK PAGE – We now have 85 members on the Association Facebook page. This page is for the use of our members to post pictures, ask questions, communicate, and generally have access to information. It is frequently seen and reviewed by most of the registered members. Anyone who is a member of the Pine Plateau Facebook group can post on the Facebook page and the Board encourages members to post pictures and other information. The Association DOES NOT have, authorize nor endorses any other Facebook or Web sites.
Thank you for your continued support.
The meeting was adjourned at 11:35 am, until next summer at a time and place to be announced.
Respectfully submitted,
Bill Thorpe – Association Secretary
It’s interesting that the board, after how many years, is starting to act like a real board. They never did anything about architectural control before, letting certain member’s ad on to their cabins without even county permits. Their problem now is that they have already set a precedent by not taking the appropriate action when it was needed and the fact that when fines were issued they would play let’s make a deal so they wouldn’t have to take any further action.
I do question the solar lighting; if it doesn’t have some kind of storage you won’t have much during the winter months.
I have made it very clear that this web site is not endorsed by Pine Plateau; it is privately owned and operated. It is one of the few places when anyone can see what this board has actually done or not done over the years. As you can see it is no longer pass word protected, that is why there is no longer any of the member’s personal information, if you need to contact a member, contact the board for the info.
New board members next year. If I’m right we will have two positions open next year. It’s time to get some new members on the board. All members should take a turn; think about it, you might be able to make a difference.
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Pine Plateau Estates
Home Owners Association Annual Meeting Minutes – June 24, 2017
The Thorpe Cabin – Lot 318, Pine Plateau Estates, Summit County
Board Members Present: Eric Hale – EH, Craig Silotti – CS, Bill Thorpe - BT, Glen Passey - GP, Eric Mander - EM
Association Members Present:
Sixty-one (61) lots were represented, thirty-six (36) members in attendance and ten (10) proxies, the original sign in list and proxies filed with the Association Secretary BT / PPE records
Copies of all correspondence, the agenda, financial statements and voting ballots, along with a sign up sheet was made available to all in attendance.
1. EH introduced the board, and welcomed the membership at 12:05pm June 24, 2017.
2. CS presented the 2016 and 2017 operating budgets for the association (attached). The association ended the year 2016 with a cash reserve of $10,449.86and the projected cash reserve for 2017 is forecast to be $20,074.86. There was a limited discussion of the budget by the members present. A motion was made and seconded to accept and approve the budget as presented. The motion was carried by the membership.
3. CS presented the forecasted 2018 operating budget. The dues will reduced and the association will have a projected cash reserve of $22,184.86 at the end of 2018. The budget was presented to the members present and was approved as presented.
4. With the cash reserves now to a level previously targeted by the Board and with the major maintenance project of the roads and fencing completed, the Board has approved the reduction of the dues from $125 per lot to $80 per lot. This reduction will become effective with the next dues billing cycle.
5. The summit County wood chipping crew will be here on July 19, 2017 and will chip as may of the wood piles as they can in an 8 hour day. Please have your piles stacked alongside the roadway. (Instructions for the wood chipping can be found on the Pine Plateau Facebook page)
6. The Board has created a Fire Pit Permit committee to assist all Pine Plateau members with understanding the requirements for a fire pit within our community and the necessary steps needed to receive an approved Fire Pit Permit. (The rules governing Fire Pit Permits can be found on the Pine Plateau Facebook page). Rex Feller is the chairman of this committee, anyone needing information about an authorized Fire Pit Permit or what the specifications of a Fire Pit must be before a permit can be issued. All members were reminded that open fires are strictly prohibited, except in an approved Fire Pit. Rex Feller can be reached at 801-541-6502.
7. The Board has decided that the South Gate should be monitored electronically. One Pine Plateau Member has volunteered their property where a video camera can be placed. The Board will work with this member and with the local internet provider to commence this service as soon as possible. The members were reminded that the gates are to be closed and locked at all times, violators will be identified and will be issued fines pursuant to the rules and regulations of Pine Plateau. (A copy of the rules and regulations can be found on the Pine Plateau Facebook page).
8. There are tree (3) openings on the Board. The Board has announced this to the members for several months preceding the annual meeting and has asked for volunteers to fill these very important positions. Craig Silotti announced that he did not want to stand for reelection. Nominations from the members was opened and Cody Lawlar (Lot No. 236) was nominated. Following the vote, BT announced that Eric Hale, Eric Mander and Cody Lawler were elected to the Board. The Board positions are for three (3) year terms.
The meeting was adjourned at 1:25 pm, until next summer at a time and place to be announced.
Respectfully submitted,
Bill Thorpe – Association Secretary
My view of the meeting.
#2. I asked Mr. Silotti how much the camera costs, he stated that he didn’t have that information with him but it was around $200.00. When I got home I wrote to him and told him I wasn’t buying his explanation of the camera and that I wanted to see the receipt and who had paid for it.
The reason for asking was: in the line item spending report it lists the following:
Craig Silotti Office Supplies
Copies 16.00
Envelopes 12.25
Stamps 36.75
Gate 232.96
Camera/Monitor
I was trying to find out if the camera was real or just a fake. The reply I got from Mr. Silotti was that the camera was categorized under gate because that is what it was related to. So the members were supposed to know that a camera is a gate? Keep in mind that the South gate had been damaged and that was the time period that it was being repaired. Also, in the 2016 meeting we spoke about using the camera not just for the gate but for speeding and other violations.
Then I received an email from Mr. Thorpe saying that I was accusing the board as being liars and misleading the members and doing things for their own personal gain. First I have never called any of them liars but I do have the right, as do all members, to ask questions and have the board verify statements that they make. I have also never accused any board member of doing anything for their own benefit; in fact almost everything I’ve done is concerning what the board hasn’t done. As far as misleading the members: look at the fire last year (see below) Mr. Thorpe goes on to say that I have accused the board of having illegal elections, of that I am guilty. Explain to me how when the covenants state that every member has the right to vote, either in person or by proxy and the bylaws state that all proxy votes must be turned in before or at the very start of the meeting, then how can you legally nominate a member in the middle of the meeting to run for the board. You can’t. Mr. Hale has violated the proxy section of the Bylaws every year since they were filed by him.
And that not only pertains to the elections but also the rules. Mr. Thorpe goes on to say that he recommends that they go by the book from now on. Ironic, that’s what I’ve been asking them to do from the start.
A member asked about having the North gate plowed during the winter months, she was concerned about how first responders could gain access.
I’ve said it for a long time that the North gate isn’t safe to try and exit by in the winter. The speed limit is 55 mph and people drive that speed all year round.
As far as first responders: those fifty feet aren’t going to mean much of a delay for them. Look what they have to do to get to someone in Manor Lands. They have contingency plans for all types of weather and conditions.
Towards the end of the meeting it was getting to be obvious that Mr. Hale was going to address any of the questions that I had submitted. A member brought up the fire that we had last July. She wanted to make sure that members knew how much damage could have been caused that day.
Mr. Hale then called on me and I stated that the fire should never have happened. The board had known for eleven months before the fire that the member who was issued a fire permit did not have a well of any type on her property. We had to run several lengths of hose to try and douse the hot spots.
I asked Mr. Hale why the permit had not been rescinded, his answer: I don’t know, I told him that if that fire had flashed he would have lost his cabin as well as mine and others, he said I know. Once again Mr. Hale proves to me that he doesn’t even care about his own cabin let alone Pine Plateau. The part that most concerns me is that the board apparently agrees with Mr. Hale.
The only inappropriate comments made at the meeting were Mr. Hale’s lack of concern for the member’s safety.
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Pine Plateau Estates
Home Owners Association Annual Meeting Minutes – June 25, 2016
The Thorpe Cabin – Lot 318, Pine Plateau Estates, Summit County
My Opinions
Board Members Present:
Eric Hale – EH, Craig Silotti – CS, Bill Thorpe - BT, Glen Passey - GP, Eric Mander - EM
Association Members Present:
Fifty Eight (58) lots were represented ,thirty-one (31) members in attendance and six (6) proxies), the
original sign in list filed with BT / PPE records
Copies of all correspondence, the agenda, financial statements and voting ballots, along with a sign up sheet
and listing of PPE member contact information was made available to all in attendance.
EH introduced the board, and welcomed the membership at 1:05pm June 25, 2016.
CS presented the 2015 and 2016 operating budgets for the association. The association ended the year 2015 with a cash reserve of $15,624.21 and the projected cash reserve for 2016 is forecast to be $4,978.21. The primary reason for this was the approved dues increase in 2015 and the deferral of the Road Maintenance program from the summer/fall of 2015 to the spring of 2016.
The Board gave a report on the major projects undertaken during the past year;
EM reported that the approved Road Maintenance program has been completed. The association solicited bids from various contractor firms and the work was done by Ellingford Brothers, Evanston, Wyoming. No trees, fences or decorative rocks were moved. The roads were leveled with a motor grader, approximately 190 tons of road base was hauled in and spread. All roads were then compacted. We were able to complete all the roads this spring, saving the association extra costs to bring the crew out again next spring.
The roads do look nice but they are a far cry from the program that board first talked about that would cost us $30,000.00. The one part I did notice was the high edges that were left on both sides of the roads. They were supposed to be crowned for the water to run off, now it all stays on the roads.
EM also reported on the repairs and improvements made to the South Gate. The gate was straightened, the locking mechanism was beefed up substantially and the gate painted. The gate can now only open outwards.
I received and forwarded to the board an email from the company who repaired the gate. He stated that is the last of the favors, the bill should have been $1500.00 and he asked that the board to please control the member who did the damage.
CS reported on the fencing repairs, which have been completed. The fencing crew had to be called out a second time to correct a mistake at one of the member’s access gate.
One member present asked if it would be possible for the association to provide “wildlife access points” along the fence perimeter, as it appears the number of moose, deer, etc. has decreased within PPE over the years. The Association Board will check into what the requirements would be for such access.
I still get a lot of deer and moose on my lots, my wildlife cameras take 200 to 300 photos per week. Most of them are at night and during the weekdays. The moose population diminished when the state more than doubled the hunting quota a few years ago. The Friday before the meeting we had a yearling bull moose in our backyard, several deer and a red fox. We used to see a lot of raccoons but I understand someone had transplanted a lot of them into the river. I have three spaces I left in my fence for wildlife to walk through. The deer and moose started using them right away. You could do this on the North fence in a couple of spots. I just hope the board doesn’t mess with DOT’s right of way fence again, that almost got expensive for all of us the last time. The one thing I would recommend is to take the barbed wire off the right of way fence. I don’t believe DOT requires it and that’s what is catching a lot of the animals trying to jump over.
CS presented the forecasted 2017 operating budget. The dues will remain the same and the association will have a projected cash reserve of $14,603.21 at the end of 2017. The budget was presented to the members present and was approved as presented.
Some members asked about the forecasted Legal expenses in the budget. EH responded that one member has threatened to bring action against the Association, for a variety of reasons, although nothing has happened as of this date. The Board felt it prudent to forecast this possible expense, to insure the Association had enough reserve to cover the Legal costs of the association. EH reminded the members that a few years back, a member brought an action against the Association, costing all PPE members and the individual, a great deal of money and impacting the funding of future Pine Plateau projects and work needing to be done.
I’ve been told that there may be problems with how the covenants were filed but if there is any legal action taken it will be against the board for misconduct, violations of the rules and governing documents. Misconduct is not covered by either the insurance or by members, only by the board members. Any actual changes to that document that would put us in line with other HOA’s like ours could be made by amendment and the cost would be minimal.
The Board has proposed that the association build and maintain a cash reserve to handle unexpected expenses that the association may incur. It was proposed that a cash reserve of $15,000 be maintained and once that amount is achieved, the dues would be rolled back to the previous level. The motion to approve was made and seconded and approved by those present.
CS announced that the Summit County Wood Chipping crew would be at Pine Plateau on Monday July 18. Anyone who has need for wood chipping needs to follow the instructions, which are posted on the Pine Plateau Facebook page.
I hope this program continues.
There are two (2) openings on the Board. The Board has announced this to the members for several months preceding the annual meeting and has asked for volunteers to fill these very important positions. There were three (3) names submitted: Bill Thorpe, Glen Passey and Brad Garrett. Each was given an opportunity to address the assembled members, prior to the vote being taken. Following the vote, EH announced that Glen Passey and Bill Thorpe were elected to the Board. The Board positions are for three (3) year terms.
This is the first year since the covenants were filed that Mr. Hale allowed all the members to vote. That should tell you that the other votes did not follow the guidelines. Then Mr. Hale intentionally violated the bylaws that are very clear about the use of proxy votes. So, you still don’t have a legally elected board of trustees.
Other items brought up and discussed at the meeting:
The Pine Plateau Facebook page has been a great success since it was started, at the request of members, following last years meeting. The goal is to provide a mechanism for all members to be better informed as to meeting dates, minutes and other important items of interest to members. As of this date we have nearly 70 members on the Face book page.
The members were reminded that you must have a valid Fire Pit Permit, before you can have any open fires within PPE. The Board has developed a Fire Pit Permit form, which must be signed by a Board member and filed with the Secretary. The form will be posted on the Facebook Page for your reference. Fire Pit Permits are valid for two (2) years only and must be renewed. A letter was mailed on May 5, 2016 to all current Fire Pit Permit holders, reminding them of the need to renew their permits, if they want to continue to have a valid permit.
Please read the latest information in the Notice section about our last recent fire..
The question of camouflaging the Propane tanks was brought up. The Board will research options that may be available and post them on the Facebook page for member reference.
I’m still looking into this. It does state that they have to be light colors, such as white or light gray in order to reflect the heat. Seems like the biggest concern is: do you want to hide those tanks from the fire fighters?
Recently I spoke to the Summit County Fire Marshall and asked him about the tanks. He said he wouldn’t recommend it mostly because of the reasons I mentioned above.
A question about overhead power lines was brought up and if there was anything the Association could do to have them buried underground. The Board will as the member to contact Bridger Valley Electric and Summit County and research this question and report findings and options to the Board.
A question was asked about excessive speed by vehicles (cars, trucks and ATV’s). The Association has a strict 10 mph speed limit within our community and the Rules provide for warnings and fines for those violating this limit. The Board will research additional signage that might be put up at critical points (blind curves, etc.) within our community. Also, we remind all members, that we must self police ourselves and be observant. If a violation of any rule is observed, try to contact the offender and remind them of the speed limits or other rule, and if necessary report details (who, what, when and where ) of these infractions to the Board for appropriate response.
There was a lot of discussion about the camera and monitor that were purchased by the board. The camera has been mounted to photograph the South gate to see who is leaving it open. This has been done before and the board not only refused to take any action, they refused to even explain why.
I was up there on June 13 and 14. The gate was wide open with a sign stating a Fed x was coming. I heard after that, that another sign went up concerning a ups delivery. If I remember right both of those companies were given keys at one time, they both have a four hour block when they will arrive and I’ve been told they can also make phone calls to areas that have gates. Something’s never change.
I just had a look at the camera, I’m betting its fake. That’s probably why they buried the cost.
The meeting was adjourned at 2:25 pm, until next summer at a time and place to be announced.
Respectfully submitted,
Bill Thorpe – Association Secretary
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Pine Plateau Estates
Annual Business Meeting
20 June 2015
My Opinions.
First you will notice that we now have a Vice President. That has never been mentioned before and wasn’t at the meeting nor was it in any of the board meeting minutes. Mr. Hale did away with that position when he was first elected even though we have always had at least one in the past. I’m sure there is a story behind that.
The mention that a quorum was present is another change Mr. Hale has made. It is now 30%. Used to be a majority or 51%. We need to learn that when Mr. Hale uses the word discussion, there will be a vote and one that only members attending the meeting will be involved in.
The financial statement is never a question. I’m pretty sure Craig knows where every penny is.
The long term program really only addressed the roads and fence.
The wood chipping program is one of the few services that Summit County provides. Thanks to Craig for getting us involved. I hope it becomes an annual event.
South Gate. The comments about the south gate are true. What they aren’t telling you is that our gate has been damaged to the point that it might not be repairable. It’s gone from being a perfect gate that should have lasted most of our lives, to something that is now an eyesore. It’s had pieces cut off of it, pieces added to it. The main post has been struck hard enough to move it a couple of inches. The supports are bent and have dents. This isn’t something that was done by accident. This is what happens when you hire someone who isn’t licensed, insured, and there is no contract to make them responsible for their actions. Not only did the gate not have a lock in it for six months, most of the winter it was open with snow piled up against it so it couldn’t be closed. If they are not going to start the roads till next spring then there is money to repair or replace the South gate. Regardless the board should mandate that Mr. Andrus only uses it like the rest of us.
(3 [photos)
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**Rules: I agree with all the information in this section. The board shouldn’t be shouldn’t be solely responsible for enforcing the rules. All members should be reporting any incident that is a violation. Trouble is: When you have a full time resident who constantly violates the rules with no action taken then members get concerned about reporting him for fear of retaliation. I’ve been a little more vocal then most concerning this member. Used to be that member would just drive by and yell obscenities, now I get the occasional late night high speed pass. When I sent the board photos last July of the Andrus family opening and leaving the gate open the only guidelines there were was to bring the matter to the attention of the board. I knew from past experiences that they needed more than that so I provided numbered photos, a log that with corresponding numbers with dates and times. I identified Mrs. Andrus and her vehicle in one set of photos and Mr. Andrus having his son open the gate in another photo. That seems to me to be all that they are asking for now. I have asked the board more than once why no action was taken, no reply.
Like I told the board, all in all I thought it was a good meeting. Doesn’t mean I agree with some of their past tactics. I still believe they could have major legal issues at any time.
These are the questions concerning the roads that I posed to the board after the meeting.
Which Company are we using?
How much per mile was the estimate?
Are you planning to do the private drives like in area one and down by the river?
What actually will they be doing to the roads” Are they going to disturb the base we have, or just add to it?
Will it be higher than the driveways into the cabins?
What type of material will they be using?
When do you plan on starting and can we post a notice for the members who will be affected?
What fence needs repair?
Below are the answers to most of the questions provided by Mr. Thorpe.
As to your questions about road maintenance, I met with Ellingford Brothers and walked the PPE roads with one of their supervisors. I explained that we had a limited budget to work with each year and we did not want to take away from the general environs of PPE, but the roads needed a little help. The summary of that meeting is:
1. They would propose to bring in a water truck and a grader and spend a couple of days working on our roads. The water truck is needed to adequately wet down the road surface so it can be properly worked with the grader.
2. They would first move as much of the previous rock from the sides to the center of the road. Bringing in only what is needed to complete the grading.
3. The roads will be properly crowned and sloped to provide the best possible drainage.
4. Once this is completed, they will bring in a compactor to compact all the work done, giving a very compacted and hard surface to the roads. (like what Robert Evans has done on his parking slab).
5. This will all be kept within the budget. (probably cannot get it all done at once).
Now for the bad news, it is too late in the season to start the work now. The soils are way to dry and would require a huge and costly amount of water to even start the work. The ideal time would have been in May following all the rain (which we couldn’t do because we hadn’t had the annual meeting and approved the expenditure). So, now that the program has been approved, our options are:
1. Wait until the fall and wet weather to start the work, or
2. Wait until next spring as soon after the snow melts and doing as much work as possible with the minimum water needs.
Option 2 would be the most efficient, as there would be much less water from a truck needed, so more work could be completed.
There will be no need to adjust driveway levels and we will notify members when the work will happen so they can make plans accordingly, probably little or no impact on individual lots.
Finally, the Board takes all comments, suggestions and input from all members seriously and we give as much considerations as needed.
My concerns: I am glad that the board has stated that the roads will be widened from 12 to 15 feet.
There are plot maps available to them that show which lots have permanent property lines and which lots that the easements are to be taken from. Some of these areas haven’t been surveyed in years and I know that they have shifted a little from their original path. There may also be problems with large trees and maybe even a fence or two.
The one good thing to come from this is the time involved. After the first section is done we will have time to evaluate what has been done. Personally I don’t hold much hope for what they want to do. With our weather and traffic with heavy trucks and ATV’s that only drive down the center of the roads, I don’t see this as being a lasting fix. I found about a dozen other HOA’s similar to ours and looked them up on Google maps. Their roads look just like ours do now. Some have web sites; most only speak of filling in the holes and grading once in a while. This could be the start of a never ending project.
Other new info: Home Owners Insurance.
I have been Travelers insurance for years. The insurance on my cabin was $285.00 in 2009. This year it is $753.00. (With no claims) Their reasoning for the increase is the number of claims in our zip code which is the same as Evanston Wyo. When I explained that we were thirty miles from Evanston they said they would re-evaluate. It took a couple of days and there were no changes. After telling them I would be looking for new insurance they had me speak with customer service who told me that the main cause of the increases were to cover rebuilding costs using the latest building codes. I also spoke with an insurance investigator I knew and he confirmed that building codes were the largest part of what determines our costs.
Estimated Summit County Taxes for 2015
You can check at www.co.summit.ut.us
Go to services and to property search. Enter, on the name line you can either enter the property owner or pine plateau estates.Empty lots for 2014 were valued at $20,000 they are now $35,000. Taxes on those lots were $165.38 this year they are $289.42. All of the cabins have changed significantly, some doubled, some more. These are just estimates but those numbers don’t usually change. This isn’t just Pine Plateau, I checked property all around us and they all have been raised about the same.
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Pine Plateau Estates
Home Owners Association Annual Meeting Minutes – June 21, 2014
Eric Hale’s Cabin – Lot 428, Pine Plateau Estates, Summit County
(Eric Hale – EH, Craig Silotti – CS, Bill Thorpe - BT, Glen Passey - GP, Eric Mander - EM)
Received from the Board of Directors 5 Jan. 2015
Fifty two lots were represented (46) in attendance and six (6) proxies, the original sign in list filed with BT / PPE records
1. EH introduced the board, and welcomed the membership at 10:37 am June 21, 2014.
2. EH asked those in attendance to state their name, lot or lots they represented and where their home city was located.
3. EH proposed the agenda and asked for any revisions or additions, there were none. EH stated there were only two issues that would be voted on specifically at this meeting. The first was the 2015 budget with and without an increase in dues, the other, voting of the three PPE trustees.
4. CS gave the PPE financial report for 2013-14, the actual for the first six months of 2014, the proposed for the last half of 2014 and anticipated for 2015. In addition, a discussion was centered on a 2015 budget with increased dues, and why the increase of dues, if the consensus of the group agreed that we indeed need to raise them.
EH asked for a show hands to determine the viability of the installation of an electric gate on the south entrance (very strong opposition), the need of a PPE care taker / maintenance person (strong opposition), With cabin insurance more difficult to obtain and the insurance company’s requirement that there be year – round access thus it was stated that the PPE roads needs to widened to allow for both fire and snow removal equipment to access all of the lots, (this passed as a possible item to be addressed and included in a master financial plan). Specifically the membership suggested that the Trustees develop a both a 5 year and 10 year plan for how the Association should address the financial requirements of PPE.
It was proposed by the membership that the new dues should be $125.00 for all lots, with the increase of the dues to be placed into a reserve account until the five and ten year master plan is developed and confirmed.
EH asked for a motion and second to approve the proposed 2015 budget with the dues increased in January 2015. A vote taken and passed as presented to begin a Reserve account.
EH discussed snow removal, there was a wide difference of opinion from the membership with no decision made.
EH / CS discussed the opportunity for a work weekend to address the fence repair and fallen beetle damaged trees, again a wide difference of opinion. CS offered the details of the Summit County wood chipping program, this was endorsed and the debris should be placed at the road way/lot edge prior to July 31, 2014, please contact CS that you have a pile to be chipped. CS will contact Summit County.
The membership voiced their concern that PPE didn’t have an official web site; the Trustees will review at the next meeting.
The membership wanted to discuss the PPE fire pit / open fire issue. EH indicated that it was not an item open for debate and that PPE has approved Outdoor Fire Pit Guidelines. The specifics are in the Rules and Regulations – June 2013, section 10.
EH asked for nomination for three open positions on the Board/ Trustees. Nominated were Eric Hale, Craig Silotti, Tom Funk, Eric Mander and Jerry Bell. Ballots were issued to all lot owners present with one vote for each lot. The six proxy votes were included. Eric Hale, Craig Silotti and Eric Mander have been elected for three year term to the PPE Board. Ballots filed with BT / PPE records.
EH thanked the membership lot owners for attending and having a very constructive collaborative meeting, drinks and cookies were offered and the meeting was adjourned at 12:47 pm.
The trustees appreciated the vote of confidence by reinstalling them and the ‘Thank-yous’ for our time and effort. There were several good constructive suggestions that will certainly be considered and most probably implemented. One thought was to raise the lock on the gates to the higher bar making it easier to lock and unlock. Another, is to ask the membership, individually, what their priorities might be regarding future desire/needs for Pine Plateau residents, for example the removal of dead wood, more road base, gate issues, snow plowing, etc. The trash bin will eventually be put inside the gate by Summit County, at no cost to the membership.
Minutes Respectfully Submitted By
PPE Secretary – Eric Mander (06/27/14)
My Opinions Below.
My opinions of the actual minutes of the 2014 annual meeting.
Sunday, January 11, 2015
As you can see it took over six months for the board to release these minutes. Now you will know why.
Item #4.
What they are not telling you is: A vote by the show of hands to keep the 2014 budget was voted upon first and it was almost unanimous. Then they asked for a show of hands concerning the five year plan, that’s when the added the hike in the dues. It did pass by a show of hands but not but not by the same number that voted to keep the 2014 budget. I watched the board members through those votes and never saw anyone count the number of hands.
Cabin insurance is getting more expensive but if you read my unofficial minutes you can see why. One new member brought up the problem with getting insurance and now the board is going to use that to push their own agenda.
There was strong opposition to the electric gate and to the caretaker. What they failed to mention was that there was strong opposition to plowing the roads. We got scammed bad that year for paying to widen the roads and some members actually had to hire someone to clear their driveways from the roads being plowed. I’ve heard rumors that if you didn’t hire a certain person to clear your driveway it really got buried.
It was proposed to the membership that the new dues should be $125.00. That’s not true. The agenda and the proposal was to raise the dues to $100.00 per lot without a cabin and $150.00 per lot with a cabin. This is where I made the mistake of informing the board that if they did that they would be in violation of both the covenants and the by-laws, both which state that all lots are to be assessed equally. Mr. Hale’s only reply was that they were just trying to be fair.
So the members who believed they were voting for $100.00 for a lot with no cabin are about to get blindsided for something they didn’t vote for. Discounting the legalities of the show of your hands vote, the $125.00 was never discussed let alone voted upon. If our covenants do indeed give the board full power to raise the dues to any amount and without justification, then we need to be looking at amendments that limit the board power to raise those dues to a majority approval of the members.
Item #7
Discussion concerning having an official web site. This web site is free to the board to post anything and everything they need. They would obviously have more control of what is put on their own site but this one isn’t going away, I think the members need to see and hear a different opinion of what is really going on in Pine Plateau.
You can read my unofficial account of the meeting below. It was written simply because the board wouldn’t send me their version.
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Saturday, December 06, 2014
The Unofficial 2014 Annual Meeting Minutes.
Sorry, they haven’t been sent to me yet. I spoke with Eric Mander in July and he stated he had sent them to Eric Hale, I asked Mr. Hale in August for the minutes and he said he hadn’t seen them yet. The last request was 14 November and it went unanswered.
So here’s my take and what transpired at the meeting.
Some of the following information also comes from a meeting I had with Mr. Hale before the annual meeting.
I’m hesitant to use the term board when it comes to the decisions they make. But Mr. Hale told me that all decisions from the board are unanimous and that it has to be that way.
Financial Report:
With Craig Silotti as the treasurer we should never have to worry about where the money is and that it’s accounted for.
From that point on everything kind of ran together, the Board members remained the same and they would decide what positions they would hold at their next board meeting.
Automatic Gate Discussion.
As often as this topic comes up and gets shot down you would think that if they were serious about it they would have formal company bids and estimates. They did not. All they had was the number $4,000.00. That was the number that Mr. Andrus gave the previous board for him to build, install and maintain the electric gate. That would also mean no guarantee or warranty and we pay Mr. Andrus every time it malfunctions. There was a show of hand for and against. It was shot down again.
Proposed Dues Increase and Budget.
The board proposed raising the dues to $100.00 per lot without a cabin and $150.00 per lot with a cabin to cover paying for a full time caretaker and for road maintenance. Someone asked who the caretaker would be and Mr. Hale stated that Mr. Andrus had volunteered his services. It got very loud at that point and I can’t print what was said. Needless to say he didn’t get the job. This next part still confuses me a little, just about everyone agreed to keep the 2013/14 budget for the 2014/2015 year. Then it was agreed to that the board should start working on a five year plan for Pine Plateau. Part of that may have been to raise the dues and just keep them in a slush fund. (Or as I call it, The Electric Gate Fund) That show of hands wasn’t near as close and I didn’t see anyone count hands. The problem with raising the dues to those numbers is that it violates both the covenants and the bylaws which states it must be an equal assessment against each lot. Mr. Hale stated that he was just trying to be fair. So besides violating the documents for the assessment they once again violated them by the vote they held. The documents are pretty clear that you get one vote for each lot you own, that didn’t happen.
If the board raises the dues for 2015 it could and should be challenged.
Discussion on New Association Rules adopted last year.
I don’t remember much about this part of the meeting other then they said only one member had applied to the board to have a fire pit.
The rules is kind of strange topic for the board to bring up since they themselves have broken more than they have enforced, which to my knowledge, is none. We have had lots cleared, buildings built, additions to cabins, with and without permits, a fire at a member’s cabin and maybe even a septic tank installed. Then there is the South gate that has been open more than closed the last four years. To be fair to the board the rules do now say that the Architectural control pertains only to structures over 200 sq. ft. (Be careful here as Summit County says a permit is needed for any structure over 120 sq. ft) The rules also state that the board wants to make sure that compliance to Summit County codes are meet. I asked Mr. Hale if Andrus got away with not notifying the board and getting a building permit, his answer was yes.
Roads
One of the new members said they were having trouble getting insurance due to the lack of year around access. Year around access was discussed and the majority of the members there were not happy with the way it was done a few years ago. It just didn’t work that well, a lot of the members driveways were blocked with the snow removed from the roads. We paid Mr. Andrus a lot of money that year because he said the roads needed to be widened for the heavy equipment that would be used that year. No one I know ever saw any heavy equipment, only Mr. Andrus’s tractor. Over one hundred trees were cut down and were not removed until the day before the annual meeting. The board that year even paid Mr. Andrus $1300.00 to have Bridger Valley move a power pole. All those trees and money and the roads were never widened. High Uinta Ventures who also bid that year stated that there was no reason to remove any trees or widen the road.
Our roads are no different than any other HOA around us. We actually have it better concerning fires because we have natural fire breaks almost all around us. Fire trucks proved they can reach any area in Pine Plateau if they had to, they could even run hose from the highway to a lot of cabins if needed.
The biggest problem with insurance now is the new Summit County building codes. They went from nothing when the first cabins were built. In 1995 they literally required you to build a home, foundation and all. The requirements with the new codes are such that if you do have insurance for what you think the value is or what the county assesses it at, you should at least double it, or more. Mine went up $200.00 a year about the same time the codes were changed.
If the board is looking for a project they should contact Mrs. Norman. She tried to bring up a problem at the meeting but was blown off. Pine Plateau has several lots that are land locked. If those lots ever come up for sale, the County will block the sale until access is gained through Pine Plateau. Mr. Hale said he didn’t know anything about it, Mr. Mander does, I told him, but I think he was too busy trying to overturn the river right of way purchases.
South Gate
It was brought up again, as usual, about it being open all the time. It was pretty obvious that everyone knows who is responsible.
In the minutes earlier this year the board stated that it was all of us on ATV’s who were responsible for leaving the south gate open and they thought if they created an ATV gate so members didn’t have to carry keys all the time that the south gate would be closed more often. That didn’t work out so well. Mr. Hale was advised not to mess with DOT’s right of way fence. We do have a little history with DOT. They saw the opening and promptly advised Mr. Hale that he was in violation and that it needed to be closed immediately. The board took their time having it repaired and was literally within hours of having DOT deliver concrete lane dividers to seal the breach. That would have cost us all thousands due to the insurance not covering items where the rules are violated. Mr. Hale did say that Mr. Andrus took it upon himself to take down the fence but it had already been approved in the minutes. After it was repaired it was taken down again, I guess just to thumb their nose at DOT.
On June 21st when I arrived home I received an SD card in the mail from a member. That card came from a camera trap that was set to cover the south gate. It was in place for the first ten days of June. The camera was motion activated and was set to photograph every 20 seconds. There were over 4700 photos. A good number of them were due to the wind and highway traffic. What I found was that almost all of our members actually lock and unlock the gate. The gate is normally closed on weekends but open most all of the week days and nights. There were several members who did just drive through the open gate, even I have done that. Sometimes it just gets too frustrating to close the gate only to find it open ten minutes later.
Out of all of those photos there was only one family that will unlock the gate and leave it open. I put the pertinent photos on a disc and sent them to Mr. Hale in July.
The last time I spent time up there I closed the south gate three times. After the second time I noticed a young man on a red side by side open the North gate and then drive back to the South. This was the same individual who, with his father was seen in the photos opening the South gate.
My Opinions:
Question: Why does the Board of Directors not allow the entire membership to vote on items that affect all the members?
The agenda for the 2013 annual meeting clearly states that: “Presentation and Discussion of New Association Regulations”. And yet there was a vote taken on the new rules, rules that affect all Pine Plateau members. Some of the rules they proposed weren’t even legal in Summit County. Fires have never passed when the entire membership is given a chance to vote.
The agenda for the 2014 annual meeting clearly states that:” Discussions would be held and board members voted for”.
I was very clear in asking Mr. Hale if there was going to be a vote held on the items presented, his answer was “The plan is to present these ideas to the members at the meeting and gather input and opinions prior to deciding how best to proceed”. I don’t see the word vote anywhere in that statement. Last year they were so worried about law suits concerning fires that they actually voted by lots owned but not for any of the other rules.
Answer: A suspicious person might think they are trying to stack the vote.
Bylaws:
The bylaws were filed by Mr. Hale in 2013. I can only assume that the attorney who wrote the covenants put them together at the direction of Mr. Hale. This document had no input from the general membership. The old bylaws needed to be updated but there are a couple of glaring changes that were made. In these new bylaws a quorum is defined as 30%, not the usual majority which has worked for the last 50+ years. I asked Mr. Hale why the change and his answer was that only 30% of the members attend the annual meeting. I doubt that is true. I also think that it can be argued that it’s not the members but the number of lots that are represented. Under the right circumstances 30% could be as few as 12 members with a large percentage of that being Mr. Hale Mr. Mander and Mr. Andrus.
Section 6.5 Meeting of the members:” The majority vote of members present, in person or by proxy, at the meeting and entitled to vote on the subject matter shall be the act of the membership” My information is that a member voting by proxy needs to understand in clear language what the member is voting for, that has not been done the last two years. That even puts the rules in question. And the statement of voting for any other items that may come up at the meeting is not being fair to the members who can’t attend or don’t know someone who can vote for them.
With all we have been through with the two law suits I would think that the board would make voting a very well documented and by the numbers procedure, just counting the hands of who comes to a meeting I don’t believe is valid.
Other info:
There will always be items that need to be repaired in the common areas of Pine Plateau. I think a list of volunteers would save us money. If someone needs to be hired to do the work I don’t have a problem with the board hiring Mr. Andrus. But I think there needs to be stipulations such as, he and his family need to follow the rules like the rest of us or the board hires someone else to do the work.
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Pine Plateau Estates
Home Owners Association Annual Meeting Minutes – June 22, 2013
Eric Hale’s Cabin – Lot 428, Pine Plateau Estates, Summit County
(Eric Hale – EH, Craig Solitti – CS, - Eric Mander EM)
Fifty lots were represented (44) in attendance and six (6) proxy), the original list filed with EH / PPE records
1. EH introduced the board, and welcomed the membership at 1:05 pm June 22, 2013
2. EH proposed the agenda and asked for any revisions or additions, there were none.
3. EH reviewed old business – The law suit is behind us, the Judge ruled that association didn’t have an unlawful lien placed against Mr. Funk, but that the private right-of-way is private and the association CCR’s doesn’t control that strip of land along the river. That decision could be challenged at a later date with another law suit.
4. CS gave the PPE financial report for 2012-13, the actual for the first six months of 2013, the proposed for the last half of 2013 and anticipated for 2014. Discussion was centered on insurance cost, snow removal for the South gate. North gate for added $500 dollars, south gate repair, and road maintenance. A question was asked about office / postage, why the difference between 2012 and first half of 2013 – reason is that the most recent mailings costs have not been accounted for at the time of the meeting and more documents needed to be sent out in 2012. With money available more gravel will be placed on the roads later in the season. EH asked for a motion and seconded to approve the financial report. Vote taken and passed as presented.
5. EH discussed snow removal, the suggestion was made to continue the same as we did this past winter and add North gate. EH asked for a motion and seconded to approve both gates to be plowed. Vote taken and passed as presented.
6. EH facilitated discussion concerning the dumpster, EH asked for a show of hands, in favor and against re-installing a dumpster. EH will contact Summit County to start the process for a county dumpster within the boundaries of PPE paid for by Summit County.
7. EH presented Diane Adams a plaque for her long and outstanding service to PPE.
8. EH asked for nomination for two open positions on the Board. Nominated were Bill Thorpe, Luedon Rogers, and Glen Passey. Ballots were issued to all lot owners present with one vote for each lot. The six proxy votes were included. Bill Thorpe and Glen Passey have been elected for three year term to the PPE Board. Ballots filed with EH / PPE records.
9. EH mentioned that the lot owners on the South end of PPE with river frontage have agreed to allow the PPE membership access through their lots to go to the river. They ask that no motor vehicles be parked on the right of way. Thus, only foot traffic is allowed. The membership appreciates that the respective lot owners have agreed to this issue, which is indeed indicative of a “Good Neighbor” policy.
10. EH responded to a question in regards to the excess of fallen trees, dead standing trees, etc. The Board, with help from others, will assess the situation and then possibly send out notification letters to the respective lot owner that action must be taken to remove the trees. One alternative could be to find someone to remove them for their own personnel use of the wood.
11. EH discussed the Proposed Rules and Regulations of the Pine Plateau Estates Property Owners Association. Each of the fifteen rules and assessment were discussed individually and with a show hands had the approval or disapproval of the lot owners plus proxy vote. With minor changes to Rule 2 -Firearms and Hunting Regulation – eliminate BB guns, pellet guns and bow and arrow and Rule 6 – Road Regulation – reduce speed limit from 15 mph back to 10mph passed unanimously. Rule 10 – Outdoor Fire Regulation passed with a vote of 27 for fires and 23 against. The Board will make the appropriate changes and send out the final Rules Regulations and stipulations for PPE.
12. EH thanked the membership lot owners for attending and having a very constructive collaborative meeting, drinks and cookies were offered and the meeting was adjourned at 3:47 pm.
Minutes Respectfully Submitted By
PPE Secretary – Eric Mander
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Minutes of the 2013 Annual Business Meeting
My Opinions.
Did you see anywhere on the agenda that it mentioned voting on the new rules and regulations? It said presentation and discussion. The President was right in saying that a vote from the members is not required; in the new covenants the board can establish rules without the members vote.
When that agenda is sent out it should list any item that effects the entire membership with the exception of the board of trustees, most members don't even know they are going to run until the meeting starts. In this case the proxy ballot should have listed all the rules and regulations with options, the dumpster, the plowing of the North gate and given each member a chance to vote for or against all items. You shouldn't have to depend on friends to vote for you. The ballot did say all matters voted upon in the meeting. That must be the boards’ way of making it legal. However, not very ethical. I'm not even sure about the legal aspect of what they did. With all of the problems we have had over the years with voting and the covenants you would think that the board would have certified the covenants and filed them with Summit County. As of 27 June 2013 they had not yet been recorded with the county.
Is it a legal document before it is filed? I'm not sure, but why take the chance, sounds like another law suit waiting to happen.
#4/5 The financial report has gone back to be generic, what money is in what account and what has been spent, I much prefer the report we got a couple of years ago. It listed who the checks were actually made out to and the purpose.
Why are we now going to plow the North gate? Hardly anyone uses it during the summer and it's not safe to use during the winter months. Trying to get back onto the highway when its snow packed isn't very safe.
Spend the money and plow the parking in front of the South Gate like we used to. It's the same right of way in front of the lodge that gets used for parking, advertising and ATV's for sale all year round, they don't seem to have any problems.
The board took some advice and did a temporary fix to the South gate, it locks now. I actually saw it shut and locked twice, but it's wide open again now. The gate has been vandalized and tampered with to the point that someone even removed pieces from it. It’s been wide open for two years. From the highway even just having it closed would provide some security, but it's still too big of a hassle for some members to open and close every time they come and go. Three of the four close the gate signs have been stolen. They need to be replaced. It's a shame when some people care so little about other member’s property that they can't do something as simple as close a gate.
I've seen Pine Plateau go without new gravel for as long as ten years. I can't see where it makes any difference in the surface of the roads. The large trucks and especially the ATV's push most of the gravel off the roads within weeks after it’s put down.
#6 Dumpster, really, again? First, I can't see where Summit County supplies dumpsters, and certainly not for free. We've been through all that before, you want one, and you rent one, just like we did before and like they do at Manor Lands. The cost is at least $90.00 a month? Last time they put it by the North gate. Not only was it an eyesore it turned into a health hazard. The tops being slammed at all hours of the day and night and in the summer the smell got pretty ripe.
This week we had a bear shot at the scout camp and bear problems at Mirror Lake, a dumpster will just draw them into Pine Plateau..
You want a dumpster, it will cost you, that's probably most of the reason for plowing the North gate so the garbage truck and get in and out. If you must have one, then put it in the South end. That gate area gets the most traffic and it would be closer to the members who would use it the most.
#11 Rules and Regulations. Again anything that affects all the members should be voted upon by all the members, not just the ones who can get to the meeting with two weeks' notice.
I'm anxious to see the newly revised rules. There are a couple that if not changed, don't even comply with the Summit County ordinances. And if they are changed then they need to be voted on again anyway.
The Board should do the right thing and send out a ballot to all the members with the proposed rules and regulations with different options for each one. You know what they say, if you don't vote you can't complain, but you should at least have the choice.
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Pine Plateau Estates
Home Owners Association Annual Meeting Minutes – June 23, 2012
Eric Hale’s Cabin – Lot 428, Pine Plateau Estates, Summit County
(Eric Hale – EH, Craig Solitti – CS, Richard Matheson – RM)
Forty Eight members were in attendance (48), the original list filed with EH / PPE records
1. EH introduced the board, RM and welcomed the membership at 1:05 pm June 23, 2012
EH proposed the agenda and asked for any revisions or additions, there were none.
CS gave the PPE financial report for 2011, the actual for the first six months of 2012, the proposed for the last half of 2012 and anticipated for 2013. Discussion was centered on insurance, snow removal, south gate repair, and road maintenance. EH asked for a motion and seconded to approve the financial report. Vote taken and passed as presented by the attending membership.
EH discussed the winter parking, the suggestion was made to continue the same as we did this past winter. South gate will be the only gate plowed in the winter. EH asked for a motion and seconded to approve only the South gate to be plowed. Vote taken and passed by the attending membership, South gate will be the only entrance plowed.
EH facilitated discussion concerning the dumpster, pros and cons. EH asked for a show of hands, in favor and against re-installing a dumpster. It was determined the majority of the attending membership was not interested in having the additional expense at this time.
EH proposed that the existing PPE Board be extended an additional year considering we are in the middle of the law suit and development / approving the amended covenants. EH asked for a motion and second to approve the continuation of the existing Board for an additional year. Vote taken and passed as presented by the attending membership.
Joice Mander suggested that we have two summer PPE meetings in order to get business accomplished and membership informed, there was general agreement.
EH allowed Mr. Tom Funk to discuss his ongoing law suit. The trial date to be August 14/15, 2012 and will address three specific issues. The wrong full lien placed by PPE against Tom Funk, the out of pocket cost that Mr. Funk has incurred and finally if PPE has control over the right- of – way on the private property between the road and the river.
EH with RM led a discussion with the membership in regard to the new amended covenants. Numerous issues were debated, voting rights – one vote per lot (127 total votes), versus one vote per owner (79 total votes), time to correct a violation – 14 days not long enough, specifically include that many exclusions will be Grandfathered, clarification on removal of earth and rocks, why 67% required versus simple majority on some line items, etc. In addition, there was a decided concern as to the amount of control delegated to the elected board and a desire for more input from the general membership.
EH asked for a vote to allow RM to word smith the existing document with the intent to make it easier to understand, clarify some of the articles, and relax some of the verbiage for correction without making the document more restrictive. EH asked for a motion and seconded by the attending membership to allow RM to rewrite the new amended covenants without going back and asking the previously signed signature pages by the membership be taken. Vote taken and passed as presented above.
EH recommended that after the new amended covenants are approved that a subcommittee of the board and possibly one or two members from each phase develop the new PPE By-Laws and Rules and Regulations. The membership agreed with this proposal.
EH thanked the membership for attending, drinks and cookies were offered and the meeting was adjourned at 3:47 pm.
Minutes Respectfully Submitted By
PPE Secretary – Eric Mander
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Business Meeting Minutes - 18 June 2011
Thursday, July 14, 2011
Sorry, I don't know if there even are any. We did not have a secretary at the time of the meeting nor did we vote one in. This is a problem that the new board will have to take care of.
I've spoken with Diana Adams, the vice president, and if nothing else she will try and put together something from her notes of the meeting.
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PPE Annual Meeting Minutes
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